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--- en:grammar:pronouns [2023-01-04 10:40] – [Possessive pronouns] Explain why we we use separate possessive pronouns christian
+++ en:grammar:pronouns [2023-01-15 11:06] – Rewrite section on reflexive pronouns christian
@@ Line 65: / Line 65: @@
 //Rationale:// Seven of our ten source languages have separate possessive forms of the pronouns (all except for Chinese, Japanese, and Swahili), therefore Lugamun uses such separate forms as well. And seven source languages place the possessive pronoun before the noun (all except for Arabic, Indonesian, and Swahili), therefore Lugamun uses the same placement.
-===== The reflexive and intensifying pronoun “sem” =====
+===== The reflexive pronouns “sin” and “sini” =====
-The pronoun **sem** roughly corresponds to English '-self'. It is never used as subject, but it's used as object and after prepositions to refer back to the subject.
+In the first and second person (with **mi, nas, ti, tum**, and their possessive forms), the regular pronouns are also used to refer back to the subject.
-**Ya [like] miru sem ni mira.** – He/She likes to watch himself/herself in the mirror.\\
+**Mi miru mi ni mis mira** – I see myself in my mirror.\\
-**Ya sun to rabit xvo a sem, "Oi No!"** – She hears the Rabbit say to itself, "Oh dear!"\\
+**Tum ga laki tumi yo hain ta ples.** – You will find your possessions over there.
-**Sem** is never used as possessive pronoun. Instead, the regular pronouns are used in such cases.
+In such cases, it's always clear who the person(s) in question are, so the normal pronouns can be used without any risk of confusion.
-**Man nomu bir ya.** – The man drinks his beer.\\
+However, the third person (**ya, it, le, on**) is used for a much wider set of people and things – for anybody and anything that's not 'me', 'we' or 'you'. Therefore in such cases it's useful to know whether an object or a possessive phrase refers back to the subject or to //another// third person. To make this contrast, Lugamun uses **sin** 'him-/her-/it-/oneself, themselves' in the object and in prepositional phrases to express that they are identical to the subject. For example:
-**Mi no bisa laki [key] mi.** – I can't find my key.\\
-If used after a noun phrase or another pronoun, **sem** instead functions as an //intensifier//, stressing the fact that the indicated person (or thing) will handle the indicated activity in person or that (maybe surprisingly) they themselves are meant rather than anyone else.
+**Alisa sun to rabit xvo a sin, "Oi no!"** – Alice hears the rabbit say to itself, "Oh dear!"
-**Mi sem ga fa it.** – I'll do it myself.\\
+Here the rabbit talks to itself (**sin**). On the other hand, if a different pronoun such as **ya** is used, this indicates that the rabbit talks to someone else:
-**[President] sem li [visit] nas!** – The president herself/himself has paid us a visit!\\
-**Nas li miru maraji sem!** – We have seen the king himself!
-//Note: Intensifiers and reflexive pronouns are identical in a majority of languages (WALS 47).//
+**Alisa sun to rabit xvo a ya, "Oi no!"** – Alice hears the rabbit say to her, "Oh dear!"
-When combined with a possessive pronoun or a possessive noun phrase (**sem de ...** or **... ki sem**), **sem** stresses the importance of the possessive relationship, also indicating that it is exclusive rather than shared. In such cases, it is typically translated as 'own'.
+In this case, the rabbit talks not to itself, but to someone else. Only the context can reveal to whom. In the example sentence it seems likely that it's talking to Alice, since she's the least recently mentioned person matching the pronoun **ya**.
-**Mi yau ruma sem mi!** – I want my own house! (I don't want to share a house.)\\
+**Sini** is the possessive form of **sin**, used in the third person to express that something belongs to the subject:
-**Ta xi [car] sem de [boss] mi. / Ta xi [boss] mi ki sem [car].** – That's my boss's own car.
+**Man nomu sini bir.** – The man drinks his beer. //(his own beer)//
+If another third-person possessive pronoun (**yas, iti** or **les**) is used instead, this indicates that something belong to //another// third person, not to the subject themselves. For example:
+**Ona li kaixu side ni byen man va toma yas bir.** – The women sat down next to the man and took his beer.
+Here **yas** indicates that the beer doesn't belong to the subject (**ona** – the woman), but to someone else – in this case, logically to the man.
+Note: Don't confuse the pronoun **sin** with the [[adverbs#plain adverbs|adverb]] **sam**, which in English is likewise often translated as '-self', but serves a different purpose.
+//Rationale:// We use separate reflexive pronouns only in the third person, because here they allow a useful distinction (between the subject and other third persons). According to WALS (chapter 47), reflexive pronouns (**sin** in Lugamun) and intensifiers (**sam** in Lugamun) are identical in a small majority of languages. But using different words for these functions is nearly as common, and since we use the reflexive pronoun only in the third person while the intensifier can be used with any person, it would be confusing to use the same word. Therefore we prefer to use separate words for clarity.